Their ignorance of the peoples of the countries they are invading and attempting to subvert, their use of everything from Islamic extremists to militarized neo-nazis groups and their threats of sanctions and "prices to pay" are guaranteeing their own failure, and it is about time.
Voice of Russia regular Rick Rozoff spoke to us about the revocation of a 2012 Ukrainian Federal Law that permitted language rights to linguistic groups which means in areas where Russian is spoken by a majority of people it cannot be used. Mr. Rozoff says that the cultural pogrom we have seen in Ukraine is on a level that is almost unimaginable and compares it to the ascension to power of Hitler's National Socialists in Germany after 1933. Rozoff call the events in Ukraine: "...the worst thing that has occurred in our lifetime for what it signals: the utter triumph of lawlessness internationally, the utter triumph of international gangsterism and I mean the big gangsters in the West who are behind this ultimately and their gutter-snipes and their punks on the streets who are delivering the goods for them." As for financial aid Rozoff says the usurpers in Kiev are simply asking for their pay-off money.
This is John Robles. You are listening to an interview with Rick Rozoff – the owner and manager of the stop NATO website and international mailing list.
Robles: Hello Rick, how are you?
Rozoff: Good John, despite the circumstances.
Robles: Yeah, I have no words right now myself. But I would like to hear your take on what is going on right now in Ukraine, and especially with the outlawing of the Russian language?
Rozoff: Ukraine is divided right now. It is not only divided between people who are Russian speaking primarily, or Russian and Ukrainian bilingual, and those fanatics and extremists in Western Ukraine who insist on speaking Ukraine only, Ukrainian rather only. I mean there is linguistic and general cultural geographical divide that exists in the country, but really what we are talking about is ideological and I would argue ultimately moral ofdivisions within the country.
What occurred on Saturday, let’s call it by its proper name, it was the most overt coup that has occurred in Europe since before World War II, there’s no question about that. The only comparison, and we’ve discussed it before, would be something on the order of Benito Mussolini’s march on Rome in 1922.
If the previous colour revolutions, including the so-called "Orange Revolution" in Ukraine in 2004 and 2005 was essentially an illegal seizure of power, and it’s my contention it was, it was at least done under the auspices or under the pretence of it being a parliamentary electoral transition, that is a special election was held and there was a change of regime based on the result of the election, whether or not that was a legitimate election or not.
What happened this past Saturday however is of a totally calibre. What we have seen is a group of violent mob activists, essentially chasing the government out of power, in collusion with certain forces within the Parliament, within the RADA. But for the most part the mob – mob rule – has taken over in Ukraine, and what we are going to see, that given the flavor or the nature of the real core of the opposition on the streets in Kiev, in Lviv and elsewhere in the country, which is: extreme nationalist, fanatically and intolerantly nationalist to the point of fascist, is what we can expect to see is a series of punitive measures, vendettas, pogroms, and these will be directed against first of all political adversaries, there is a statement I believe on Interfax today where a leader of the Party of Regions, formally the governing party only a few days ago after all, only four days ago, stated that we are now operating at gun-point. And he’s a Deputy in the Parliament, in the VerkhovnaRada, and it's something we've all suspected.
That not only have members of the now opposition parties, formally governing parties, operating under duress but that announcements there have been threats to their lives and the lives of their families and that is what I suspect is occurring, and that’s why you see some of the defections if not most that we’ve seen.
We also have to realize that there is a movement afoot, as you indicate, to revoke a 2012 Federal law that permitted language rights to linguistic group that represented ten or more percent of the population and that any given political entity and province, that has now been revoked. That means in areas where Russian is spoken by a majority of people technically, it cannot be used as a state language, one of two state languages.
Similarly with other ethnic minorities, Hungarian and others in the west of the countryor Romanian perhaps. We have already heard about an attack on the synagogue in Kiev. We heard anti-Semitic language, clearly anti-Russian. We’ve seen that monument erected to the victory of the Soviet Union in World War II over Nazi Germany desecrated. We’ve seen a statue to General Kutuzov, who led the Russian Army in the war against Napoleon in 1812, destroyed.
We have seen a cultural pogrom on a level that is almost unimaginable - the only comparison I could possibly think of is shortly after the ascension to power of Hitler’s National Socialists in Germany after 1933, you know the book burnings and the other cultural assaults against ethnic and other minorities in the country, this is what we are seeing right now.
Look, I have right in front of me right now, a photograph of the City Hall in Kiev from 2 or 3 days ago, and there are pillars, columns, in the centre of it. The Svoboda banners or pennants are hanging from both sides – you know the 3 fingers and the fist – a roughly a variation of the art for, you know punch fist salute of all the coloured revolutions. In the middle is a giant representation of Stepan Bandera, the Ukrainian nationalist and accused Nazi collaborationist in World War II. This is what’s taken over in Kiev, this is what’s taken over in much of Ukraine
Robles: What would you say about Secretary of State John Kerry. Two statements I would like you to comment on, one by John Kerry, he says: “Ukraine is going through an extraordinary transition and developments there shouldn’t be viewed as a west against east scenario”.
And also, this is the so-called opposition, or I don’t know if you can call people who have used force to occupy the houses of government as new leaders, but that’s what the western media is calling them.
“The new leaders in Ukraine have promised to fight separatism”, as the European Union and Russia called on them to ensure the country’s integrity’. Can you comment on those two statements?
Rozoff: John Kerry’s comment? I would first of all just counterpoise his comment. There’s a useful duplicity amongst American politicians when they are actually part of the governing administration they speak at least in the public with a degree of restraint that belies their true intention, which came to the fore or was revealed a couple of weeks ago when the Victoria Nuland tape was aired – this is how they talk privately, right, telling the European Union to get aft and dictating terms for the next regime in the Ukraine after the coup that occurred on Saturday.
But while they are speaking at least to the public, to the media, they use restrained language like Mr Kerry, however, within the last 24 hours, John McCain, one of the ranking Senators in the US Senate, and a former presidential candidate not too long ago, was on television stating that it’s a question… (this is a distinction between East and West) there is a conflict between East and West.
The Ukrainian people, he states as though he’s empowered to speak on their behalf, or can divine what their true intentions are, he says the Ukrainian people want to be a part of the West and not the East and then the “East” carries a negative connotation (the reference is clearly to Russia) that there is something inherently bad about the East and about Russia, and of course no sane Ukrainian in Mr McCain’s view would possibly want to affiliate with his kith and kin across the border in Russia, who are seen as inherently inferior or inherently savage and barbarian and so forth.
He also said, and I think this worth … your listeners ought to know about this, that the events and the takeover, the bloody and violent coup in Ukraine last Saturday (he said this twice) should make Russian President Vladimir Putin “a little nervous”.
This is the same McCain who said, right after Muammar Gaddafi was killed in October 2011 that Vladimir Putin ought to pay attention, in so many words that “he is the next”. This is again he is a senior member of the US Senate, a presidential candidate. He is speaking the truth of what the American political establishment means. Kerry is simply sugar-coating his words.
Robles: So they are threatening Vladimir Putin, this a provocation in your opinion?
Rozoff: Again. Well I don’t know what else to say, but McCain twice in the television interview said to Vladimir Putin, given the events, recent events in Ukraine "ought to be a little nervous," that's a quote.
Robles: I see, I see. What about the new “leaders”, these “peaceful protesters” that they are going to fight separatism? Can you comment on that?
Rozoff: Well let’s keep in mind separatism is a two-edged sword and these people have played both bloody ends of it. On the one hand had they not succeeded in bringing down the government, the legally elected and universally, internationally recognized government of Ukraine last Saturday, then they themselves would have played the suffragette’s card in north-west Ukraine, around the Lviv area, calling for independence or breaking away or at least some autonomy status.
Now having taken control of the capital in a putsch, in a coup, they are against separatism, and the US and NATO of course are right behind the extremists, the Molotov cocktails hurling and the sniper rifle wielding extremists who took power on Saturday are coming in (that is the US and NATO and the Europaen Union and saying: “… we will not tolerate separatism or the fragmentation of Ukraine.”
That is an unquestionable reference in the first place to Crimea. That should any efforts be made by these newly established authorities in Crimea to assert the rights, they have the Russian language and so forth, that can then be construed or exploited by the, whatever anarchic mob of gangsters that’s running the affair currently in Kiev that threaten the Crimea and then call on their western patrons to back them up.
Robles: But they actually have under international law and under normal international standards, they have the right to secede from Ukraine if their human rights and their right to self-determination and the right to speak the language that is native to them, if that’s infringed upon, they have the right to secede from Ukraine. SO what they are doing is the exact opposite, they are forcing the breakup of Ukraine themselves..
Rozoff:The may bringing events about that may lead to the fragmentation of Ukraine but I still believe and there is a parallel to theis and a precedent, when the first and the “real” colour revolution succeeded in 2003-2004, that is in Georgia, where Mikhail Saakashvili came to power with an irredentist and uncompromising hostile towards Russia.
His first manoeuvre was within a month or two of taking office was the threatening of an autonomous region within Georgia, just as Crimea is an autonomous region within Ukraine, and I’m talking about Adjara or Adjaria. And he threatened the country there was still slow handful Russian peace keepers there, he actually moved his military right up to the border.
Eventually it lead to the president of Adjara having to flee to Moscow and then they took over the area. This is what I believe the new extremists in Kiev are going to replicate if they can. They are going to have, just like Hitler distinguished himself by remilitarizing the Rhineland and then eventually bombing Spain or moving into the Sudetenland.
Everyone of this ilk needs some military campaign to consolidate power and I fear that threats against Crimea would be the most likely scenario for consolidating some sort of fascistic power in Kiev.
Robles: I see. Where do you see NATO in all of this, Rick, please? That is very important.
Rozoff:It is in a very thick of it. I mean despite the fact that NATO is going out of its way to keep a low profile because to do otherwise is to expose the real essence of what is occurring in Ukraine which is: that a country of vital geostrategic significance, one that is not only close to Russia, but is arguably almost inseparable to it, the way Syrians and Lebanese may have felt in the past is I think how Ukrainians and Russians do now. They see themselves as at one time being part of this one political entity. There are relatives on each side of the boarder and certainly particularly in the Crimea.
NATO has said a couple of things. Secretary General of NATO Anders Fogh Rasmussen two days ago, on February, 23 made a statement in to the effect that Ukraine is a vital partner of NATO and NATO is a friend to the Ukrainian people.
Robles: A vital partner?
Rozoff:Yes. Impressing its stamp of NATO, in other words we’ve branded you, we’ve marked you off as our territory and there is an upcoming meeting of defense ministers in Brussels. I believe it is occurring tomorrow, for two days, 26 and 27 our time here.
And there is going to be a regular scheduled meeting – the NATO- Ukraine Commission- something set up to help integrate Ukraine fully into NATO.
As though the coup had never occurred, right. As though there had been no disruption. Everything else has gone by the way aside. I’m sure public transportation, I’m sure health service, I’m sure everything else has been impacted or impeded by the upheaval in Ukraine but not the meeting, the NATO- Ukraine Commission which is going according to their schedule tomorrow.
We had the cases in the past to mention, that even under Yanukovich, and you think how much worse it is going to be now under whatever juntais implanted in Kiev, that even under Yanukovich Ukraine became the first country to assign two naval vessels to permanent NATO maritime operations, one in the Mediterranean, one in the Indian Ocean, operation Active Endeavour and operation Ocean Shield respectively.
Ukraine became the first not-full member of NATO to supply military forces for NATO’s response force. So the process of integrating Ukraine into NATO has been going on for decades. It has been intensified in recent years rather than the opposite. And that opportunity now presents the US and its allies with the opportunity to further absorb and consolidate control over Ukraine.
This is possibly the worst thing that occurred in our lifetime and I do not exaggerate, for what it signals: the utter triumph of lawlessness internationally, the utter triumph of international gangsterism and I mean the big gangsters in the West who are behind this ultimately and their gutter-snipes and their punks on the streets who are delivering the goods for them.
To the tune by the way, as the new even fluid and amorphous regime and Kiev is asking of the West $35 billion in bailout money.
Robles: That is the first thing they got in there, the first thing they did was saying: “Oh, Russian –it is illegal as a language, so therefore other Russians are also illegal. And we need several billion dollars”. That is a first thing they did.
Rozoff:Yeah, they are asking for their pay-off money.
You were listening to an interview with Rick Rozoff – the owner and manager of the stop NATO website and international mailing list.
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